Please Report Beta 2 Bugs Here!

[scottlu]

This topic is for Beta 2 bug reports.

[crakerz]

Scott, thanks for the new updates!

I found a few things:

1. The obsolete counter stuff is still there.
2. Can't seem to find where to link levels.
3. The issue we discussed in
http://www.handmark.com/warfare/forum/viewtopic.php?t=509 is still there for me.
4. Trigger load/upload buttons still don't work (OK, not a bug, but wishful thinking).

More tomorrow, good night!

[SoLan]

crakerz, you link levels by setting "Set next mission to" to the name of the mission that you want to be loaded when the user finishes. In this version you can use the name that you gave the mission (.lvl) rather than the auto-generated internal reference name.

[scottlu]

crakerz:

- didn't remove obsolete counter. It's on my list for the next release.
- I lowered the priority of the re-positioning view bug since the repro scenarios are no longer when you place or click on a map item. Those were the worst problems and are fixed.
- I haven't done anything with the trigger buttons since the general issue of more flexible trigger management needs attention later, so it is a lower priority for the moment.

[crakerz]

With the Beta 3, if I do not completely exit a level (ie, abort the mission) before I upload a new version, when the game is restarted, and the OK is clicked, I get a fatal exception reset.

The old version would just go back to the main menu on start up.

Also, if you attempt to play a saved game of an older version, fatal exception reset occurs.

The old version would just give an internal game error.

[scottlu]

Good one, that is a good bug. Basically saved games are not compatible with new edits to the same mission, and the game needs to know that.

[crakerz]

Don't know if this is new or not:

If you move any structure or mobile unit, its health goes back to the default (0).

If you move the Bullpup, Raider, or Dominion, its aggression will revert back to default (coward).

Kinda annoying, esp. if you don't know about it!

[SoLan]

That is not new, crakerz. I noticed the problem with buildings reverting to full health on being moved in the previous version as well. I can't understand why I didn't think of reporting that as a bug...

[crakerz]

Again, I'm not sure if this is related to the new version or not, but it didn't start until this one!

After installing the new editor, I re-compiled the level. Like any good beta tester, I tested it. I do admit that I made several small changes, all of which worked (mostly to ecoms and the like).

Several things didn't "trigger" that had triggered before, things I didn't change. After much hair tearing, I realized that the triggers were corrupted somehow. Deleting them (not copying!) and retyping them in as new (exactly as before, btw) was the only solution.

Another (previously stated) problem is mulitple M's being able to open the same file simultaneouly, and to save or compile said file. Very bad.

[crakerz]

Okay, now I am really frustrated. In relation to the post above:

First, some triggers (call them "A") stopped working. After deleting them and retyping, they started working. Note, copying and deleting the old didn't work. I made sure I retyped exactly as they were. Retested level. Other triggers (call them "B") stopped working. "B" triggers have nothing in common with the "A" triggers: different sides/areas/switches.

So, I retyped the "B" triggers. And they now work. But then some of "A" triggers stopped working, and now a few "C" triggers stopped working. Retyped "A" & "C" and now "B" has stopped again.

I changed nothing in these triggers prior to recompile. I only changed/added a few ecoms.

BTW, I reloaded the old editor. Same issues, so it's common at least.

There are 52 triggers (44-side 1, 8-side2), 24 areas, 16 switches, two pvars, 100 scenery, and 15 Unit groups.

Short drive that it is, I'm going crazy.

[scottlu]

[quote="crakerz"]Don't know if this is new or not:

If you move any structure or mobile unit, its health goes back to the default (0).

If you move the Bullpup, Raider, or Dominion, its aggression will revert back to default (coward).

Kinda annoying, esp. if you don't know about it! [/quote]

Great bug, thank you. I'll check into it.

[scottlu]

crakerz, anything you can give me to diagnose the problem would be a great help. Whatever is causing this we'll certainly want to get fixed before going public. Ideally you could give me a .ld you know doesn't work, and tell me how I would know it doesn't work in specific detail, and if you have a working copy that does work, send that along too.

scott@spiffcode.com

Thanks.

[SoLan]

I have run into a JIT error message in the editor. I am working on a level that had not produced one single error before now, but when I entered 30000 as the initial credit for side 2, I got an error saying something about a System.FormatException and that the index must be higher than or equal to null and lower than the size of the argument list. (I am sorry - the error message is not in English, and what sense there might have been in there is probably lost in translation.)

Setting the initial credit does not cause the problem unless the credit is set to 30000 (29999 and 30001 will both work perfectly). Setting the value to 30000 will work if I set it to something else first, but once I have got the error the level seems to be corrupt and there is nothing I can do to get rid of it. This means, of course that I have to go back to my last backup.

I have tried to recreate the problem in another level, but neither my test-level or an empty level produces the error - so far it only happens in my new level.

[scottlu]

Interesting bug! I'll look at the code to try and spot it, and of course if your level reproduces it, please send it to me: scott@spiffcode.com.

Thanks.

[Girt]

Sorry to be late - I took the weekend off...

[quote="SoLan"]That is not new, crakerz. I noticed the problem with buildings reverting to full health on being moved in the previous version as well. I can't understand why I didn't think of reporting that as a bug... [/quote]

Yes, I thought I noticed that, too.
I didn't report it, because I thought I was delusional.
I was chasing that other bug, and thought I must have loaded an old Saved level.

So, Scott, do Crackerz problems imply we can't bring a beta1 level over to beta2?

[scottlu]

It should work fine (famous last words, I know )

If it doesn't I want to know about it. crakerz sent me his problem levels last night and I'm taking a look.

Crakerz: one limit that you are over (and the mission editor is not validating) is the number of triggers allowed per side. I previously said it was unlimited but there is a trigger related resource that isn't unlimited, so I need to backtrack on that statement. It is 40 per side. I can bump this up to an arbitrary number, as well as validate trigger counts so you are warned at mission export time. Note that this limit doesn't affect the .ld file, just the game at run-time. Your .ld's should be fine if you decrease the trigger count to 40 per side.

How about a max of 100 per side?

[mitch]

100 triggers

I cant wait to play a mission that has that many triggers

I think that that sounds good

[crakerz]

Scott, I think that 100 is good (or a nice binary number of 128 would be even better )

I haven't tested this, but are you validating the number of switches now? That one caused freezes if exceeded!

One of my levels that I was waiting for the Area bug to be fixed before proceeding, has (sides combined) over 100 easy.

When this one is back up and running, I will try to finish that one!

[Girt]

Obviously the way around limits is to break the level into chapters, especially now that the level link is apparently working.

[crakerz]

Girt wrote:

Obviously the way around limits is to break the level into chapters, especially now that the level link is apparently working.

That's one way It may not be practical for all levels. One I am working on has a number of logic permutations that quickly drive the number of triggers needed up. If there was a way to directly compare pvars with other pvars, or triggers that had a logic function other than AND (like OR, or XOR), then this wouldn't be necessary.

I like limits. Especially ones that can be pushed until they break. How else will you know what/where they are?

[crakerz]

Well, Scott, that's solved it! (At least the non-working triggers part.) I reduced the number of triggers for side 1 from 44 to 39. Now it works. I'll be reloading it tonight.

[scottlu]

crakerz wrote:

Well, Scott, that's solved it! (At least the non-working triggers part.) I reduced the number of triggers for side 1 from 44 to 39. Now it works. I'll be reloading it tonight.

Great to hear! On the issue of Switch count validation, it is being done correctly in v2a (which is available, check original the beta 2 post). Same with Area count validation.

[Girt]

On a positive note, I wanted to affirm the fixes.
The new editor and the new Palm WI both are working great for me, so far (see Hardware below). Including Saving and Loading, etc., on both.
Brought my v.1 level over with no problem.
Registration on Palm worked fine, too.
Also the "crash when exiting 'M'" bug for Win98SE is gone - Thanks!

- Girt

[SoLan]

crakerz wrote:

That's one way It may not be practical for all levels. One I am working on has a number of logic permutations that quickly drive the number of triggers needed up. If there was a way to directly compare pvars with other pvars, or triggers that had a logic function other than AND (like OR, or XOR), then this wouldn't be necessary.

I like limits. Especially ones that can be pushed until they break. How else will you know what/where they are?

I think you have been the one who has discovered most of the limits in the level editor/game engine. Thanks to you, the rest of us know what to look out for - even if most of us will probably never push any of the limits you have found.

I noted that you had had to remove some of the triggers from your level. I hope you didn't have to take out anything important? It seems like you have got the trigger stuff pretty much in control, and I trust that you had considered the alternatives before you did that.

I am not a "wiz" when it comes to this stuff, but I have found in my levels that sometimes using a combination of switches and triggers means I can reduce the number of triggers required. In situations where you are testing the same set of conditions over and over, having the test done in one place and setting a switch, means you can simply test for the switch in the other triggers.

Very often you don't have a choice about how you do things in the level editor, but sometimes you do, and I have found that re-thinking the way I do things can sometimes result in better solutions.

[crakerz]

Scott, when do you think a release will occur with the trigger limit adjusted?

SoLan, thanks for the compliment about being so pushy . No, I didn't remove anything important. I did three things:
1. Moved some triggers to side 2
2. Combined some triggers. I had four triggers that were for Mission Loaded. One was to set switches, one was to set parameters, one for pvars, and one to start it up. I put them all into one, and used comments to separate. The reason I didn't do it that way to start, was it isn't possible to see the whole trigger on the preview screen at once. In another case, I combined several timed ecoms into one, using the wait action instead of the elapsed time condition.
3. Eliminated a few triggers. One was if all mobile units and some structures were destroyed, and credits was under 99, to end the game. This wasn't consistent with the mission objectives, so I eliminated it.

Great example, btw, of using triggers and switches together. I do that a lot in my levels, also. And I agree on the rethinking part. That's another reason forums like these are so dynamic. To quote scripture: "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another (Proverbs 27:13)". We all are unique, and have different ways of looking at things, thank God! All we have to do is accept that others' viewpoints can be valid, and try to see it that way. I learn so much in these types of forums, usually much more than I contribute.

(Ahem) Okay, I'm off the soapbox

[crakerz]

An uhhandled exception occurs if the user tries to select a unit without a group selected. I'm thinking the "new" button should be inactive like the others unless a group is selected.

On a related note: Is it possible to add structures and/or side Neutral to the unit group window? After the "cuaa" bug went away, there isn't any way to create sideNeutral unit groups or unit groups with structures.

[scottlu]

I can release an increased trigger count build next week if needed (I wasn't planning on it but can do it). I'm out of town at the moment until Sunday. Thanks for the bug report on the assertion, I'll look into it.

On other other question crakerz on unit groups with neutral units or structures, I'll have to delay that answer till I get back.

[crakerz]

Hope the trip is pleasure, not business!

Scott, I would really appreciate it if you could release the increased trigger count next week when you get back. It may only be taken advantage of by a few, but I think it is worth it. I have a level that is dependent upon it that I put many hours into. (pleaseplease please)

[SoLan]

crakerz wrote:

Several things didn't "trigger" that had triggered before, things I didn't change. After much hair tearing, I realized that the triggers were corrupted somehow. Deleting them (not copying!) and retyping them in as new (exactly as before, btw) was the only solution.

I was trying out the level I am working on today and I figured out that I needed some more triggers. I added these and tried again, and still nothing happened. I have two computer sides in my level in addition to the human side. I had added two triggers to one of the computer sides and none of these triggered. I also saw that my "every 5 seconds turn side Xs repair on" trigger no longer worked. That had worked on the first test.

Since none of the new stuff was working, I thought at first that I probably hadn't sync-ed the new .pdb to my Palm and I was still playing the old one. Sync-ed again, but the problem was still there.

I couldn't understand this, but since it all seemed to happen to one side, I thought maybe it had something to do with the side the triggers were on. So I opened the triggers and set both of the new ones to the human side. Now it seems to be working perfectly.

This is a brand new level, and all of the triggers were added in version 2, so I guess it doesn't have to do with changing versions. There were no errors when I exported the level.

[scottlu]

crakerz wrote:

Hope the trip is pleasure, not business!

Scott, I would really appreciate it if you could release the increased trigger count next week when you get back. It may only be taken advantage of by a few, but I think it is worth it. I have a level that is dependent upon it that I put many hours into. (pleaseplease please)

No problem, will do.

[scottlu]

SoLan wrote:

crakerz wrote:

Several things didn't "trigger" that had triggered before, things I didn't change. After much hair tearing, I realized that the triggers were corrupted somehow. Deleting them (not copying!) and retyping them in as new (exactly as before, btw) was the only solution.

I was trying out the level I am working on today and I figured out that I needed some more triggers. I added these and tried again, and still nothing happened. I have two computer sides in my level in addition to the human side. I had added two triggers to one of the computer sides and none of these triggered. I also saw that my "every 5 seconds turn side Xs repair on" trigger no longer worked. That had worked on the first test.

Since none of the new stuff was working, I thought at first that I probably hadn't sync-ed the new .pdb to my Palm and I was still playing the old one. Sync-ed again, but the problem was still there.

I couldn't understand this, but since it all seemed to happen to one side, I thought maybe it had something to do with the side the triggers were on. So I opened the triggers and set both of the new ones to the human side. Now it seems to be working perfectly.

This is a brand new level, and all of the triggers were added in version 2, so I guess it doesn't have to do with changing versions. There were no errors when I exported the level.

Sounds like an excellent bug SoLan, thank you. I'll debug it when I get back. Please send me the level that isn't working with a description of what should be working. Thanks.

[crakerz]

So, SoLan, I'm not going nuts! Something similiar happened to me last night on a new level. Triggers assigned to a side other than 1 didn't seem to work. Changing them to side1 made them work, and then back to the original side the continued to. Thought I was(wasn't) seeing things.......

BTW, the issue of mine you quoted was directly related to the 40-trigger per side bug. I wonder, how many triggers total you have for all sides?

[SoLan]

Total triggers for all sides: 18

I didn't try changing the triggers back once they started to work.

[motionmind]

When I start moving objects around on the playing field or try to select multiple objects, I get this error:

>m -[UntitledLevel*]

>An unhandled exception has occured in your application. If you click >Continue, the application will ignore this error and attempt to continue. >If you click Quit, the application will be shut down immediately.

>Object reference not set to an instance of an object.

I have the full info from clicking the "details" button also, if that would help.

[wayner]

When I tested one of the missions in my campaign, instead of the units on the map exploring new area, whenever they move, galaxite starts appearing all around them!!! Can somebody please help me? This is a major bug Also, could you bump up the max number of buildings? One of my levels worked fine until I put it in Beta 2.

[scottlu]

motionmind wrote:

When I start moving objects around on the playing field or try to select multiple objects, I get this error:

>m -[UntitledLevel*]

>An unhandled exception has occured in your application. If you click >Continue, the application will ignore this error and attempt to continue. >If you click Quit, the application will be shut down immediately.

>Object reference not set to an instance of an object.

I have the full info from clicking the "details" button also, if that would help.

Yes, please post the full details, they will help alot. Thanks.

[scottlu]

wayner wrote:

When I tested one of the missions in my campaign, instead of the units on the map exploring new area, whenever they move, galaxite starts appearing all around them!!! Can somebody please help me? This is a major bug Also, could you bump up the max number of buildings? One of my levels worked fine until I put it in Beta 2.

Please send me your .ld and .pdb file: scott@spiffcode.com

Thanks.